Muddy Waters

Joined

• started 54 topics
• posted 1,015 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Muddy Waters

• 
  27

  Embarrassed and Glassy-Eyed stop by

  by wheelwithinwheel in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  two brothers doing the territory stopped in at my place.

  i kept them on the step.

  after some hellos and catching up, i said so you folks are on tv now.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Muddy Waters

  Excellent, Blondie! Now we just need a golden calf with JW.org on it!!
• 
  17

  Looking for Alan F's essay

  by BluesBrother in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  can anybody help me find on line the essay about the watchtower' s deceptive use of quotations?

  i mean the one where alan goes to bethel and has a meeting with a senior person from the writing dept, and he can see no wrong in misrepresenting anothers words, if it makes a good quote.. alan's old on line url of geocities,com/osarif does not seem to be up any more .

  i would like to use this in discussion with an ex elder of my acquaintance.. thank you..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Muddy Waters

  Marked! ty
• 
  42

  The Kids Corner at Bethel!

  by Atlantis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  from a jw site.. .. a nice little corner for the young ones at the central america bethel branch in mexico.. .. .. .

  .. .. nevada!.

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Muddy Waters

  There is a weird visual discrepancy for me in the photo. It shows both Caleb and his parents walking AWAY from the light... Walking away from what looks like a paradise-like setting, and Caleb running AWAY from a door, with a burglar-sort of body language. Like he's trying to get away fast.

  It it just strikes a wrong note.... like they pictured it backwards....
• 
  71

  Watchtower encouraging members to go and preach in Israel

  by wannaexit in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  an odd letter was read at last nights' meeting.

  it was in regards to a special campaign for next year arranged by the governing body to go and preach in israel.

  the call is going out to anybody that speaks hebrew and english.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Muddy Waters

  Tech49, I think you are right. In William Schnell's book, "30 Years a Watchtower Slave", he described how Rutherford would DELIBERATELY send in his "companies" (publishers/colporteurs) into areas of high resistance to stir up persecution, which he would then push through the court system to help the WT gain legitimacy, protection, legal status, publicity, sympathy, and whatever else they could gain from having his minions be beaten, thrown in jail, tarred & feathered, etc.
• 
  25

  JW TV - One Further Step Towards Making the Organization Soft & Cuddly

  by steve2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of the more astonishing developments within the organization in recent years is the muting of the more "out there" behaviors of this once fiercely confrontational and proud end-times religious group.. members were unapologetically no part of the world and couldn't give a rat's ar*e what you thought of them.

  whereas the organisation fostered an outlook of warning the "wicked" world of the imminence of its destruction at the hands of the almighty - and spared no effort in doing so - nowadays the organization is sucking in its more "loose cannon" elements.

  in the place of these elements is a sparkling, smiling, airbrushed group of worshippers who parade their wholesome settled lifestyle to win converts.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Muddy Waters

  Yes, This. Marking, ty.
• 
  20

  WT Books for Sale

  by ILoveTTATT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have a bunch of wt books for sale, including:.

  divine plan of the ages.

  finished mystery - includes the pages that got rutherford in jail!.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Muddy Waters

  3 (see pm, ty) :)
• 
  20

  WT Books for Sale

  by ILoveTTATT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have a bunch of wt books for sale, including:.

  divine plan of the ages.

  finished mystery - includes the pages that got rutherford in jail!.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Muddy Waters

  2
• 
  35

  The Blatant SEXISM of Watchtower!

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from my yahoo answers question here: .

  "the bible says of deborah: "now deborah, a prophetess, the wife of lappidoth, was judging israel at that time.

  5 she used to sit under the palm tree of deborah between ramah and bethel in the hill country of ephraim; and the sons of israel came up to her for judgment.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Muddy Waters

  I remember reading something about Deborah in one of the publications which said that because Israel was being led by a woman, it depicted the Israelite's low spiritual state at the time.
• 
  25

  2015 special talk outline-A PROMISE OF PERFECT FAMILY HAPPINESS

  by suavojr in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jw's are such a happy group .

  let's see how this talk addresses the internal issues that we find within the jw's such as:.

  courtesy of jwfacts.com.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Muddy Waters

  Interesting that they mention the husband as family head and the role of the children, but where is the submissive wife? I did not see the wife's role or her place in the family in this outline...?

  And of course they never mention other important family members, such as siblings, grandparents, or other extended family.
• 
  30

  Female Perspective about WTS, marital relationship & control

  by Muddy Waters in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  despite my user name, am female.

  i was not born-in, began studying when i was around 20, am 50 damn years old now and have spent almost the last 30 years in that stupid religion.

  but here are some observations, make of them what you will.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Muddy Waters

  Despite my user name, am female.
  
  I was not born-in, began studying when I was around 20, am 50 damn years old now and have spent almost the last 30 years in that stupid religion.
  
  But here are some observations, make of them what you will.
  
  I met and married my wonderful husband "in the truth" but thank goodness we both came out of it together within the past few years (is a whole other story for another time) .
  
  But now that we are what the Witnesses would call "full-blown apostates", we are also finding that the dynamics of our relationship are changing. We are actually growing and becoming MORE RESPECTFUL of each other. It's like we actually appreciate each other now MORE because we're not constantly judging each other or nit-picking each other due to organizational standards and the feeling of never "doing enough" or being good enough.

  Because you see, as a JW family, my husband worked (and worked DAMN HARD! and still does) while I stayed home or did some part-time work. Hubby would come home from work, tired, yet still had to change, shower, have supper, etc., to get ready for the stupid meetings. Well after being on this treadmill for many years, he started staying home some meeting nights, saying he was just "too tired".
  
  You know the standard JW response, "We're ALL tired...., blah blah blah.... but the kingdom must be our priority... gotta change our life's priorities..."
  
  But how does this make the average JW wife VIEW her poor, tired, hard-working husband? Does she see his difficult & challenging days of work & daily grind as a gift for his family, to show how much he loves and cares for them? No, she sees his work as some sort of necessary evil, taking him away from spiritual things. And if/when there are times when his work takes him away from service, meeting nights, family study, and so she looks at him as being -- I hate this word so much -- SPIRITUALLY WEAK, or not taking the lead or whatever crap. She doesn't truly appreciate him for the PERSON he is, for the hard work he does for his family -- she only looks at him for what he ISN'T DOING, according to the clueless standards of the WT GB man-babies who don't have to work in the real world and who have every little need taken care of for them.

  Despite the WT talk of "headship", the JW wife knows that she has her husband in a pretty good cock-hold (excuse the expression) because she only has to purse her lips in a disapproving way to convey all the authority of the WTS behind her and backing her. The husband is controlled by the standards of the organization all bound up within his self-righteous little WT wife (which I totally was! ugh. Makes me feel so sick inside!) Does husband want to watch sports? Uh oh, what does the Society say about that? Does he want to relax with a good Arnold or Stallone movie? Uh oh. Too violent. That's BAD. Bad, bad, bad. The wife just has to frown in disapproval and make clucking sounds, and the husband is controlled again.
  
  The man is the "head", but in reality, this is a mirage. (Unless he's one of those assholes that are abusive and controlling himself, and yes, there are a lot of those, too! The JW doctrines totally allow for that situation too!) I'm referring to the average NICE GUY JW who isn't a jerk and who really loves his family and wants the best for them. These poor husbands are cock-holded in every way.
  
  Now that I'm 50, I see the years on my face and the wrinkles developing from my 30 years of life being a jehovah's witness. What kind of face have I grown? I have a deep frown line between my eyebrows, probably from all those years of "disapproving" of everything and judging everything, including my dear wonderful husband. I have worry lines on my forehead from all my "false concern" and insincere smuggity-ness. There are fake smile lines beside my mouth where I learned how to "smile sadly" (or so condesendingly) when speaking to "people of the world" or even fellow Witnesses. But I digress.
  
  The average JW husband feels the whole weight of the org behind his wife, whenever something is disputed, whenever something needs to be decided in even the simplest matter such as as what movie to watch or what to do for recreation or where to go for a holiday.
  
  So I think this may help explain the reaction of some JW wives to their husbands when their husbands no longer buy the bullshit of the WTS. The wives know they have LOST CONTROL. They cannot cluck or purse their lips or frown about the badness or appropriateness of whatever any more. Their husbands have reclaimed their right to decide how to live, what to think, where to go, what to watch, what to do, etc. The society and their standards have no more hold on them. So JW wives freak out. They don't know how to reason or think. They only know the FEAR & GUILT methods of control. Despite the WTS's counsel about headship and submission, JW wives often freak out on their now-worldly or apostate husbands because they are AFRAID. They don't know who this person is. This INDIVIDUAL - their own husband - is now a stranger. He won't submit to the org's control. So the wife, if she believes the doctrines & dogma, now sees him as "being over-reached by Satan", someone who is in grave danger and terrible spiritual condition.
  
  The org wants to keep us all like babies, no thoughts of our own, no mind, no will, except to further their own. JW women who had their husbands by the balls (with the full backing of the WTS) can no longer access that control.
  
  So they cry, they trantrum, they scream & freak out. It's like when you meet a JW now (we are not DF'd, but successfully faded), and you tell them you're no longer going to meetings, they look so shocked and scared and say things like, "Oh no! You don't want to DIE, do you?? If you don't go to meetings, you will DIE AT ARMAGGEDON!" That's about the only thing they know how to say. Other than begging. We had one friend send an email saying, "Please, please, please don't leave Jehovah!! You can't miss the meetings!" It's just begging and trying to fear and guilt you into coming back.
  
  Anyway, I'm just thinking that if this insight is useful, it might help some of you who are still in a relationship with a JW -- where there is probably a similar dynamic with genders reversed -- maybe it will help you see why your spouse may be behaving so badly toward you. A lot of it IS A TANTRUM because they know they can't control you. But you don't want to make your issue with them be about control. Make it be about LOVE and that you still LOVE them and you are the same basic person inside.

  As to our own relationship, I can see that my husband is actually more confident and if he wants to see a damn fine shoot-em-up movie, he's going to damn well see one! Or do whatever else he wants to do.
  But he's not doing this in a "I get to be a jerk!" sort of way, but in the capacity of being an ADULT making his own choices and living his own life now. And as he is over 60, I think it's about damn time that he gets to enjoy himself and not have to worry about somebody else's standards and judgments, including mine. I know my husband loves me, and he still does the most wonderful things for me every day, but he is also an adult male!! So this is how our relationship is changing... I don't have that "WT control" over him any more. I admit, at first it was weird and frightening, but we are growing and progressing into becoming INDIVIDUALS who *choose* to be and stay together because we love, respect, and value each other. And so every day with each other is like a gift. The moments we share are precious and vital.
  
  It's a very "adult" and beautiful thing. :)
  
  Apologize for the length of this.